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Hari Singh,
Please read my post again, where did I say that we should refer to Baba Jarnail Singh as a Sant? For me there is only one Sant and that is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I simply requested that people use Baba Ji’s full name when referring to him as a sign of respect, but both you and Prabhu Singh are fixed on calling him Bhindranwale, even though when you refer to Yogi Bhajan you both say Siri Singh Sahib, I find that quite interesting. Even if you guys don’t respect him much, perhaps you guys could have still typed Baba Jarnail Singh because you knew it would have made other people happy, and because I myself referred to Bhai Sahib (Yogi Bhajan) with the same title that his students address him with, and was still able to show respect for him even after reading all of those accusations.
Also please share with us what was said in these recorded statements or tell us where we can listen to these statements, because so far you have also made only accusations.
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Toronto Singh,
I’m sorry for not referring to Jarnail Singh as Jarnail Singh, I thought about your comments when i was posting but I chose to use Bhindranwale, because this was what I always referred to him as and because I thought it was shorter. This is the same reason I referred to the SSS as as the SSS, for one thing I new the man and always referred to him as this, and never used Yogi Bhajan unless I needed to clarify whom I was referring to in conversation. Also SSS is much shorter and I wish I could use an accepted shorthand for Jarnail Singh but non exists.
I realized that I should have said in my last post, that I have heard OF, instead of that I have heard. I don’t speak punjabi. If you look at the article found at http://www.sikhtimes.com/bios_060604a.html
You will find referenced sources of statements made by Jarnail Singh that I find anti-Panthic.
If you look closely in this article you’ll note my name is mentioned as I took issue and pressed further for where Jarnail Singh ever demanded Khalistan. I don’t think the full truth about Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale is known, but I don’t think he has a clean record either. I am open to dialog on this matter though ([email protected]). However, I don’t really find it important whether Jarnail Singh was a terrorist or a baba, I don’t think it changes one bit the troubles and issues facing the panth today.
To honest with you guys I really don’t think white Sikhs have a place to comment on 1984 or our Sikh leaders such as Jernail Singh Bhindranwale only because they were not at the hands of the Indian government at the time, hence they were not affected. their leader SSS didn’t do anything for the struggling panth at the time of 1984, and from what I hear in India if he would have went back there were so many people distraught with the way he was teaching Sikhi and claiming that yoga was apart of it, and that you couldn’t practice Sikhi with out it, that honestly from sources (regular Punjabi Sikhs who live in India) he would have been killed/assassinated. Furthermore he taught that Sikhs should follow the teachings of Guru Nanaks son’s which were totally against Sikhi…. like rituals of drinking urine were not shunned by yogi. honestly man Sikhs in India think yogi was a fraud and many still do. but back to India and Khalistan, well check out sikhnet and search Khalistan, they have a mild version of it up, and the moderators are always against it, since they have never been through genocide. my massi dealt with the dead and helped during the genocide her family was killed… but the white Sikhs didn’t go through it, and when they go to their schools over there the can come right back to America if they wanted to when things get rough… they have no say in the issue of khalistan, and should just keep their negativity to themselves.
They are white so historically they have always had no reason to fret about rights and so forth. They enslaved the blacks and implemented rules like the Jim Crow Laws, that barred blacks from basically everything. They consciousness whether good willing or not is still stuck in this mode of things are ok…. meaning they have never experienced such hardship so their subconscious is not tainted with the struggles of oppression. I believe this is the reason why they don’t care for Punjab like we do. Punjab is our country (khalistan) and we were made of that earth, born on that soil our roots are there. They simply go as tourists, to go visit historical sites where our Guru’s were. Punjab and the issue of khalistan is for Punjabi Sikhs to decide on, the white Sikhs can help, but honestly their negativity reminds me the likes of the CBI.
They have their commune in New Mexico, no one bothers with them on what they should do with it. They should just focus on their leader SSS and not the issues of Punjabi Sikhs.
Of course these last two comments come in anonymously.
Why call us “white” Sikhs? My wife certainly does not appear white to most, and is often mistaken for punjabi at Sikh functions, and didn’t you see the pictures of Lakhmi Chand and Siri Chand. Not only should you not mislabel us, you should not label us at all. The Guru never made distinctions amongst caste or race.
We are Khalsa, whether you like it or not. Our father is Guru Gobind Singh and our mother is Mata Sahib Kaur, this makes us of the same lineage as any other Khalsa. The events of 84 and the struggles of the panth involve all of humanity not just Punjabis.
The arguments made here would apply to any Sikh outside of India, not just “white” Sikhs.
And to those who think we have not faced oppression, I challenge you to walk a day in the life of my shoes. It takes a true Khalsa to go through what I have and still be here today. Yeah, I’m white, this was one of the sources of my problems. Almost every minute of everyday of my life as a vulnerable child was spent listening to taunts and racist remarks on account of my identity. Do you think Española is majority white? If you do, I’m sorry, you’re sadly mistaken. If the kids were’nt calling me “diaperhead” (a name that still stings deep) then they were calling me “pinche gringo” or some other profanity in spanish.
The torment and oppression I fealt was very real and believe me it has tainted my subconscious.
As an adult I don’t face these kinds of problems as much. Now that I am armed with maturity, education, intelligence and spirit I am hardly ever met with the same challenges. But when I am I deal with them as a true Khalsa with grace and dignity but a presence that says “I have no fear and I can take this to whatever level you want.”
Prabhu Singh,
According to Kamalla Rose Kaur Premka never said she lied about being raped by Yogi Bhajan, where did you get your info from?
Kamal Rose Kaur refered me to this book for explanation:
Dr. Connie Elsberg book “Graceful Women; Gender and Identity in an American Sikh Community”
Have you read it?
– Singhnee2000
In terms of Lakhmi Chand and Siri Chand I am sure they are cool with you and don’t see any color lines and what not since yall grew up together and are Khalsa but they have a separate struggle than you have being a white man. In my eyes they are wicked being a black man on top of that being a khalsa! Waheguru! I don’t know if they research their ancestry but if they did I am sure they would feel passionately about what is going on in Africa, and that issues of colonization and the terrible things it brought upon Africa, like the Rwandan genocide (instilling inferiority complexes among the people, hence labeling the Tutsi better than the Hutu’s because of their light skin). And that almost every single country in Africa has been colonized and raped except Ethiopia and one other that was created by African American free slaves returning to Africa.
They are they exception, and most of the followers of your leader are white and most who object to khalistan who are the followers of your leader are white.
Prabhu Singh,
Typo on “Kamalla Rose Kaur”‘s name,
the above is the correct spelling.
To “Anonymous”,
The country to which you are referring in Africa is “Liberia”. This country was founded by African American slaves, yet to this day only 3% of the population come from this descent. Despite being the minority they control the power and received assistence from the US in colonizing other Africans.
Does one truly need to be black to be educated about or feel passionately about Africa? Does one need to be white to colonize and rape the land? The answers to these questions are no.
Let me ask you a question, are you racist against white people, or do you just like to generalize? As a Khalsa, I’m not going to spend my life apologizing for actions of people with my same skin color. I’d rather spend my time fighting these injustices.
Does the fact that you perceive most white people to be the perpetrators of racism mean that the torment I received from my hispanic and native american neighbors should be justified? Because my tormenters were hispanic and native american should I be racist against them in return? If you believe so then I’ll surely have to torment my own wife an future children.
Also, did I ever call the SSS my leader or my teacher? I have one leader the Guru. And I never said I oppose Khalistan? If it were about to be created today, and I was the only one standing in the way, believe me, I would step aside. However, I may chose not to live there.
If you could see me as your Khalsa brother, this would be enough. We may not agree on the SSS (although we may), and we may not agree on Khalistan, but we could stand united and fight for our common causes. Don’t divide us by labeling me “white Sikh” and associating me with oppressors.
My last two posts have reminded me about serious traumas in my past and reminded me of the pain. I could find no shelter from the torment anywhere, all the other Sikh kids (except my brother) were in India and my parents were oblivious to what it means to be a minority religion and race in a small town in America. The teachers and adminstrators of the school never stopped the kids from slandering with me and fighting with me despite my numerous pleas. It was like the whole world did not care about my pain, and now simply because I am white you, the anonymous poster, are denying and invalidating my every word and experience.
Well guess what, it is because of the life I have lived that I have the strongest of resolve to be Khalsa until my last breath, whether you feel I belong or not.
Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh,
Hari Singh Khalsa
Hari Singh,
I am sorry you had to go through that and I am sure you did have a hard time. I have been at the end of a lot of racist hate from white people and it sucks!
I think still however that many 3ho’ers don’t have the sensitivity to understand the need for Khalistan. It may be possible the fact that Bhajan didn’t see a need for it consequently imposed this impression on the 3ho clan. It does seem like 3ho takes what he says like a message from God…. So I think they are highly receptive to only his way of thinking, and don’t have the capacity to allow their own creativity to explode and develop the sensitivity needed to understand the need for Khalistan.
In addition historically whites have benefited from many advantages in society’s social structure based on the fact of their skin color, most people can acknowledge this. You happen to live in an area which is not highly concentrated with whites therefore may have never experienced the advantages of our stratified society of America.
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous At 10:43 PM, July 19, 2005
Will you PLEASE stop posting these kinds of messages. I had thought my previous message was pretty clear.
Thank you
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
“Thus, the slanderer crumbles away.
This is the distinctive sign – listen, O Siblings of Destiny: he collapses like a wall of sand.
When the slanderer sees a fault in someone else, he is pleased. Seeing goodness, he is depressed.
Twenty-four hours a day, he plots, but nothing works. The evil man dies, constantly thinking up evil plans.
The slanderer forgets God, death approaches him, and he starts to argue with the humble servant of the Lord.
God Himself, the Lord and Master, is Nanak’s protector. What can any wretched person do to him? ” – Bilaaval, Fifth Mehl (Guru Arjan Dev ji) – Page 823
If he/she shave any part of body then it’s clear that he/she is not a SIKH, then what is matter?